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Poster: Zeno Marx Date: Feb 15, 2006 5:38am
Forum: etree Subject: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

I'm in the process of making an "anonamous GD" mix CD or 2CD for friends of mine who talk endless smack about hippie this, hippie that, Grateful Dead suck, etc. They won't know it is GD or the titles until after they listen to it. I've found this works wonders for people who are talking out their bottom end about music they know nothing about. I've never had one person, hippie-hater or not, not like Dark Star from the Live/Dead album, not even the closeminded punker types. I'll probably want an Other One from '71 or before, but I'll entertain any recommendation. Thanks.

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Feb 15, 2006 7:42am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

screw em...spin the playin in the band from veneta...

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Poster: geolectro Date: Feb 16, 2006 1:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

12/29/68 other one is punk dead. streaming only though.........

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Feb 15, 2006 9:40am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite nonhippie tunes

Well, if you want to show that they were not just a hippie band, maybe throw in more of an energetic rocker, say a blistering Deal. There was one from about '83 that comes to mind but darn, I don't remember the date right now. (x/20/83? Was it Harrisburg?)

EDIT: 6/22/83 Deal, http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=15351
is good but not maybe not the super-punchy one I was thinking of after all. Hm.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2006-02-15 17:40:36

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Poster: kschneid Date: Feb 15, 2006 8:50pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite nonhippie tunes

Speaking of Deal:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=52177

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Poster: Liamfinnegan Date: Feb 18, 2006 4:56am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite nonhippie tunes

If you want a superb deal that packs a punch- try 4/1/88 the Healy Ultramix- the whole show is good- but the first set is one of the better ones I have heard from any year they played. I was there, and I knew that night it was special- Jerry hits a peak on one of the solos that is mind-melting

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Poster: philrowe Date: Feb 15, 2006 11:55pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

The best Other One I ever saw live was 6-20-88 Alpine Valley. I have a great AUD source of this should you be interested.

Phil

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Poster: Zeno Marx Date: Feb 16, 2006 2:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

Thanks for recommending this one. It is definitely an interesting take on the song, but I'm not looking for anomalies of the song. I'm looking for the best version of the written song; one with the most energy, with the drums in full tilt, one with the guitars pounding along with them, etc. I want jamming, so don't get me wrong, but this isn't a time to show the oddities. I'll let them discover those on their own, if they're inclinded to do so.

This post was modified by Zeno Marx on 2006-02-16 10:02:09

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Poster: ethelred Date: Feb 16, 2006 3:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

It's all pretty subjective, but for my money, go with 2/15/69. I have always gravitated toward this song and found this to be one of the better versions.

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Poster: Liamfinnegan Date: Feb 18, 2006 5:32am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

"ordinary" Other One's.......hmmmmmm- ordinary but excellant? Try 4-6-81- it is a great Aud recording with a "basic" Other One coming out of Truckin, and then flowing like the mighty Colorado river into Morning Dew and then seamlessly they finish off with Sugar Mag.

I prefer the Aud version on the archive- but this 2nd set was one of the best I have ever heard, and I think this Other One- though it is only 2nd verse (with a 2 minute intro after truckin) it captures that primal rhythm you want to convey

Also- I understand what you are saying about those iconic or, As Jung would have said, Archetypal rhythms in the universe, and I feel that Scarlet Begonias and Fire is one of those- considering how they existed separately, and then found one another, hardly ever to be separated again- One of my favorite Scarlet-Fire performances is 7-7-89

I think it is a good indicator that wherever the dead married songs together for long periods of time, you will find these archetypes- these songs found each other- Help on the Way found Slipknot (which appeared before it was recorded with its soul mate Help on the Way) and the two of them found Franklins Tower- so those three songs were soul mates.

That is why you are going to include China-Rider- two more soul mates.

These songs did not find each other simply because it works "musically"- they found each other because they belonged together

This post was modified by Liamfinnegan on 2006-02-18 13:32:27

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Poster: Iko Jim Date: Mar 6, 2006 1:55pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

Check out 2-19-82, One of the rippinest Other Ones from the 80's. Phil is all over the place and keeps coming back to the "earthquake" lick, and Jerry's playing is very crisp and awesoem.

This post was modified by Iko Jim on 2006-03-06 21:55:35

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Mar 6, 2006 8:59am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

check out 5- 31-69 eugene or. this other one is ripping,jerry just tears a hole in the universe!!!!

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Poster: Zeno Marx Date: Feb 15, 2006 10:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

I probably gave the wrong impression. These are people I like and whose taste in music I generally agree with too. A greater reason for doing this is knowing I will turn them onto a new band and possibly new way of listening to music. They already like rock music. That's why I'm going with the heavy, trance-like atmosphere of Dark Star. The open space and breathing will invite them right into the sounds.

I should've mentioned this before, but I was in a hurry as I made that first post. I happen to believe there are primal rhythms and melodies, somewhat akin to universal laws; and we don't stumble upon them very often. When we do, it's as if we've always known them. It's a re-discovery, not a discovery. That's why I've agreed with the sentiment of Dark Star always being there and always playing. It's in our primal makeup...that base melody. I think the base rhythm of The Other One is yet another example of these Square One, Altered State, primordial music entities. Discharge, the punk band, did this with the re-discovery of the D-beat. I bring Discharge into this mix because they were the first example of this for me, but also because a few recipients of this mix are into punk music too. I'm going to tie them into more of this primeval musical soup, like the already beloved D-beat of Discharge, by easing them into Dark Star's melody and then right back into a drum ritual like The Other One...and that's just for the first few tracks of this mix! I'd like an early Other One because I think the snare work during those first few years of the song is quintessential.

This post was modified by Zeno Marx on 2006-02-15 18:11:55

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Feb 15, 2006 10:35am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite primordial music entity

Thanks! When I read that paragraph though, besides say Other One, I think about Mind Left Body Jam (see DP14, if you also want it to evolve out of the primordial soup), or that great ~'73 China-Rider transition, or another personal favorite, '71 Hard to Handle jam.

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Poster: Zeno Marx Date: Feb 15, 2006 11:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite primordial music entity

If you could be more specific about which '73 China>Rider version you had in mind, that would be really helpful. China Cat will definitely be on this mix.

This post was modified by Zeno Marx on 2006-02-15 19:21:15

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Feb 15, 2006 12:27pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite primordial music entity

It's more of an element I'm thinking of (a descending chords thing as they get close to Rider) rather than a specific show, examples in say,
3/28/73: http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=12078
7/31/73: http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=12103
(some offkey parts around that example jamlet, wouldn't recommend it for haters. ;) )
7/28/73: http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=17767



This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2006-02-15 20:27:35

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Poster: jwmckay57 Date: Feb 15, 2006 5:25pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite primordial music entity

What about 6 August 1971 a great AUD recording.From Hard to Handle onwards the whole audience seems to be moving under the influence of an awesome primordial beat.

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Poster: davidbarfield Date: Feb 16, 2006 1:44am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

i always point people like this to branford's contribution @ b.b.a. (garden? sorry can't remember). ask them if they think that his love of the dead's art is based on a desire to hang out in the parking lot and smoke weed and buy crystals....(?) or a profound knowledge about music. it's one thing to say something sucks because it does not strike a chord with one's *inner- whatever* (there's no arguing/convincing here). it is quite another to say it's no good from a structural perspective. if one makes the latter argument, one better have a LOT of musical expertise and be able to lay out a critique that's based in the philosophy of music...rather than a critique of the scene, or other subjective factors.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Feb 15, 2006 11:49pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

As mentioned before, the 10-27-79 Other one stands out as one of the best ever, especially if you love the Phil Thunder intro. It is also a treat because they do a sweet little Caution Jam during the segue from He's Gone!!!

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2006-02-16 07:49:35

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Poster: lip11 Date: Feb 20, 2006 8:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

Try 4/28/71, 8/6/71, 11/7/71 - All classics.

But for the full real deal, go with 2/13/70 - 30 minutes of
raw, hard-driving, melodic and rhythmic genius,
also with some of best live sound I've ever heard.
Drumz - check. Bass - check. Jerry - check!

And the Dark Star before it and the Lovelight after it
aren't too shabby either.





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Poster: dirty jev-o Date: Feb 20, 2006 1:22pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

look--there is only one-----3-1-69....the end

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Poster: Lewis/Klitschko Date: Feb 20, 2006 1:49pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

I feel the "Other One" was at its best in '72. The mixture of richness of notes and ferocity of tone suited a roller coaster ride like "Other One" like no other year.

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Poster: adroot02 Date: Feb 19, 2006 9:52am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

Well, since most folks have gone with 60's and 70's I will try hit a couple of 80's and 90's. One of my all time favorite versions of The Other One is from 08-19-89 at the Greek. Wild stuff for an other wise tame time period. And, give this one a whirl-09-20-90 for a wild Dark Star>Playin>Dark Star. and, actually, 09-20-90 works on some other levels as well. The band was really cooking this night considering they had just lost Brent and this was one of Hornsby's first shows. The first set is solid with several varying styles of tunes. A brilliant Ramble on rose! This show is one of many from every decade that will make believers for years to come!

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Poster: cheyler Date: Feb 19, 2006 10:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

Obviously the '72-'73 versions are incredible but I like the shorter more melodic versions when they come up with a new 'theme' and then jam on it for a few minutes and go back to the tune. 08-14-71 for example. Let's hope this show and the next night get released either separately or as some sort of compilation set.

Does anyone still trade? If so, e-mail me at craigeyler@yahoo.com
I'd like to get the new versions of 04-12-71, 04-13-71 and 12-12-72. I did a stream capture on these shows for personal use (not to trade) and they are quite good but there seems to be some unnecessary skipping going on (not that there's any necessary skipping...) and some of the tracks are pretty dodgy. I have hundreds and hundreds to trade, the bulk of the collection is pre-'76, including all of 1975. Please do get in touch!

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Feb 19, 2006 3:47pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

Well hopefully, Zeno, you've heard The Churchills from Israel, 1968 (great LP, reissued on CD),
and why not get real way out and learn a few new tricks right up yer sleeve:

Day Of Phoenix - Neighbour's Son & Wide Open N-Way.
Much ignored Danish band who had an English vocalist, and who made these two great albums in 1970 and 1972 respectively. The first album in particular is a stunning West Coast syled acid rock album with flashes of Quicksilver Messenger Service and Anthem Of The Sun era grateful dead. The trippy flowing guitar work is truly breathtaking. Highly recommended for fans of US '60's West Coast psych.

Good Dog Banned - Good Dog Banned.
From 1971, this ultra-rare LP featured former Sons Of Champlin member Tim Cain. With a very distinctive Grateful Dead-Quicksilver sound, GDB were one of the rarest bands to come out of the bay area in the early seventies.
My favorite is their song "Rollin' Into Salyer" friendly lyrics, nice hooks and harmonies

Horses - Horses.
A superb US country psych gem originally released in 1969 on the White Whale label. The album featured the songwriting talents of Carter Gilbert who wrote such songs as 'Incense & Peppermints' and 'That Acapulco Gold' (For the Rainy Daze) Mixing a blend of CSN&Y, Moby Grape, Stained Glass and early Poco this release is full of beautiful vocal harmonies, biting electric guitar and swirling keyboards. Don Johson was the vocalist of this group before his acting (?) career. As a side note the band had close links with the grateful dead (guesting on albums and eventually forming Dead side project Kingfish with Bob Weir).

Relatively Clean Rivers - Relatively Clean Rivers.
Former Beat Of The Earth leader Phil Pearlman assembled this band in the early 70's. This is their sole and very rare album from 1975, and it's a long lost classic of US psychedelia. An overall rural West Coast vibe permeates an album that's filled with melodic rural songs, eastern jams, delicate drifting electric and acoustic instrumentals and backwards and electronic effects. Somewhere close to American Beauty era grateful dead, but with an added dose of New Tweedy Brothers styled fuzz and garage psych electronic experimentation, this is a release that deserves a listen by any serious US '60's psychedelic rock fan.

Mikael Ramel - Extra Vagansa.
Originally released in 1974 this is the excellent second album by Mikael, who later became a member of Flasket Brinner (70's jazz rock band). This is a move away from his Swedish folk roots turning to a more West Coast/progressive rock sound with a mellow vibe and some great guitar work, keyboards and trippy backwards effects. Guest musicians include Kenny Hakansson and Bo Hansson and the overall vibe is very much like early '70's zappa with a West Coast edge and rural vibe. Superb jamming acid jazz rock with some beautiful melodic touches.

Sky Farmer - Amazing Grace.
Formed in 1973 from the ashes of the incredible Mountain Bus, Sky Farmer's sole album contains various grateful dead-like free form jams with long guitar breaks, piano, flute, sax and the vocals of Ann Linquist. They've been likened to a cross between J.Geils Band, Grateful Dead and It's A Beautiful Day. An old school Jam band.

Timbercreek - Hellbound Highway.
This 1975 album by California dudes jamming rural rock in the style of the grateful dead.The opening title track and much of the album has beautiful psychy lead guitar hooks and great melodies that sometimes drift into formless West Coast jamming.This is well recorded, mellow country rock decorated with great steel guitars melodic vocals, and even the occasional fuzz guitar. Anyone who digs Mountain Bus or early to mid '70's Grateful Dead will love this album.

Oops, but I digress.

One last recomendation... (and I know the GD got their sound production way better over the years, even a mid '69 circa show sounds far better sonically than any of my personal favorites - as much as I do love and respect Two Souls In Communion and Fire On The Scarlet Begonias Down The Road Feeling I Know You McNally,

Keep an ear out for the smashing sting of Garcia/Weir twin attack on the 1967-08-04 Viola Lee Blues...

The best Other One, in my humble opinion, besides the Pigpen onslaught of 1968-08-23 as aforementioned, is squeebly - but this Viola, while not the best, is one of the loudest, zingiest...

screw me I want to take some really good music to the grave, and 1983 isn't it, baby - take me back on the ship of the Grateful Dead across all time and space to the place where Pigpen and Pearl are playin' with Alligators and Turtles...
Bye Bye Baby Bye Bye!

Oh, and don't miss side 2 of Kapt. Kopter and the Fabulous Twirly Birds
with Randy California after you've studied the Beacon From Mars by the Kaleidoscope when you're in the mood for Easter Everywhere by the 13th Floor Elevators - just a few Things To Come after eating those Electric Bananas, oh you Pretty Things... psychedelia is so vast and Punk is the fuel that drives that bus...

but, check me out, there ain't no Other One without Pigpen... just a reunion... ok but Keith Olsen or Fender Stratocasters, don't mean shit to a Gibson.

There is a Sanity Clause, if I could just find it...well that's it for the other one...
and so, we leave the castle.
Remember that one?

Oh, y'all hate studio clarity... oops again.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMatthew Vernon Date: Feb 15, 2006 11:28am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

The 4/7/72 Steppin Out Truckin > TOO > El Paso > TOO > Wharf Rat is a good one, especially the El Paso > TOO transition.

Another option is the 4/29/72

Dark Star > Sugar Magnolia > Caution

Finally, 11/12/71 has a great Cryptical Suite with Phil high in the mix.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Feb 16, 2006 12:10pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

Check out the Other One>Close Encounters>St Stephen from 1-22-78. To me it is the perfect marriage of Other One and raw GD Jamming. The Other One is one of the last(if not the last) of the great, long, drawn out Other Ones, over 16 minutes long, followed by some raw Jerry soloing for 3+ minutes, culminating in the Close Encounters jam. As if that was not enough, he segues into one of the rawest, most primordial St Stephens I have ever heard, it is my personal favorite. The awesome aspect of the segue, to me, is that Jerry goes straight into the meat of the St Stephen riff, without bothering with the slow intro, it is a powerful and incredible 20+ minutes of some of the greatest, rawest jamming I have ever heard.

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Poster: 68Impala Date: Feb 16, 2006 3:15pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

I've been where you are trying to go. They'll probably pick-up on it being the Dead. It's always worth a try though. I say through in side two of Dicks picks 18. It's probably The Dane Co. Colliseum, in Madison, WI 2/3/78, but it might be the UNI Dome a couple days earlier. It starts with Estimated>Eyes>Playing in the Band>The Wheel>Playing in the Band and ends with a rollicking Johny B. Goode.

If nothing else, that Estimated Prophet is incredible.

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Feb 17, 2006 7:03pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

If you want to play Grateful Dead that listeners with punk rock DIY leanings might not immediately recognize as the band they love to hate,

Try these alive and evolving versions-

THAT'S IT FOR THE OTHER ONE:

!968-08-23 Shrine Auditorium - 4 minutes and 33 seconds of pure energy, stripped-down to the essence... my favorite version. Punky for sure.


1967-10-22 at Winterland... great sound, and alternate lyrics "breakin' outta jail" (?)

1968-01-22 Crystal Ballroom again different words, and edgy!

1968-10-12 Avalon Ballroom is alright too...

also 1967 versions of Cream Puff War, Cold Rain And Snow, Golden Road

Keep Rolling By (on Birth of the Dead),

Saint Stephen > 1968-08-21; 1968-10 -12; 1968-10-20

THE OTHER ONE is about how the Grateful Dead and friends stopped worrying and learned to exist as drop-outs, after meeting Neal Cassady, Ken Kesey, The Hell's Angels.
http://beat-pop.blogspot.com/ (wish list of live gigs... why wouldn't one want to have been at the heady dawn of the freak-out scene - given the choice... rather than the latter days?)




This post was modified by cream-puff-war on 2006-02-18 03:03:10

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Poster: shooter Date: Feb 16, 2006 3:32am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

the 1990 nye show with branford on sax.

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Poster: lastcall Date: Feb 16, 2006 9:15am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

With all due respect, What's the point? I don't like the color orange, my girlfriend's favorite. "Closed minded punker types"? WHAT? Look for some Dead Boys (young loud and snotty,...) You just might get it.

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Poster: Zeno Marx Date: Feb 16, 2006 9:35am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

I think you're the one who "isn't getting it." What's the point? To hopefully turn a few of my friends onto something I'm greatly sure they'll like. You know...be a friend...expose and share with each other.

You're barking up the wrong tree. I've been listening to punk since the mid-80s, and I've ran a HC and experimental noise record label since 1993. If I want full-on energy, I sure won't grab for Dead Boys.

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Poster: lastcall Date: Feb 16, 2006 11:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

No harm intended.
What are your friends rock'n on? I'm always open to try'n
a new listening experience.

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Poster: Zeno Marx Date: Feb 16, 2006 11:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

Some of the better HC these days. I'm partial to the ones marked with #, but the others are good too.

Skitkidz - Sweden
Gorilla Angreb - Sweden (?)
#Anatomi-71 - Sweden
#Regulations - Sweden
#Kykloopien Sukupuutto - Finland
#Kort Prosess - Norway
#Look Back and Laugh - CA, USA
#Tragedy - OR, USA
F*cked Up - Canada
#Boxed In - UK
#Ruin - UK
#Disclose - Japan
#Hammer - Japan
#Forward - Japan
#Paintbox - Japan
#Visions of War - Belgium
#Betercore - Belgium
#See You in Hell - Czech Republic

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Poster: lastcall Date: Feb 16, 2006 9:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

Can you provide info (web site) where I can purchase($$)
some of the stuff ypur lable has to offer?
Thanks
My point is "lead a horse to water, and he just might drown"

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Poster: darkstar11/11/73 Date: Feb 15, 2006 6:31am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

dicks picks 23(?) 9/17/72 my fav.

5/26/72 truckin'->TOO->drums->Space jam->AMdew->TOO.....yes its as good as it looks on paper

6/18/74 freedom hall....great feedback and space in this one

12/31/72 truckin->TOO->drums->phil jam->TOO->AMdew

i could do this all day
hope i could help

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Poster: cosmicharlie Date: Feb 16, 2006 2:12am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

well, with reference to Zeno, "truckin" would give the band name away unless they'd never heard it....the GD pulled in a lot of unsuspecting country lovers with their Merle Haggard & Marty Robbins covers(among others)

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Poster: Zeno Marx Date: Feb 15, 2006 6:44am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

"5/26/72 truckin'->TOO->drums->Space jam->AMdew->TOO.....yes its as good as it looks on paper"

well...well...well !!

I don't have that, and now that I looked it up, I WANT IT for myself!

Now, where to find it ????????????????

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Poster: nickteller25 Date: Feb 15, 2006 7:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

Found it! 10/27/79 Cape Cod Coliseum

Loud and crisp.

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Poster: Swinzey Date: Feb 15, 2006 10:41am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

8/6/71,mister charlie. The best I have heard yet!

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Poster: nickteller25 Date: Feb 15, 2006 6:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

Cape Cod Coliseum '79. Don't know the exact date off hand. But you'll be able to find it.

Lesh's intro is one of the loudest I have ever heard his bass.

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Poster: mcglone Date: Feb 18, 2006 8:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD: your favorite THE OTHER ONE? for a hater mix

other one + 'X' factor = 7-25-1972